Post by Anthony on Oct 15, 2006 19:36:21 GMT 7
We're seeking evidence of a cause, not an effect. I'll apply a hypothetical new doctrine here:
1. A unicorn created the mesonychids sometime in prehistory using magic.
2. The unicorn left no trace of its existence, but decided to create whales around 40-50 million years later rather than let them evolve. It timed some of these whale species to go extinct when they were killed by whalers or pollution.
3. Humans realize this, do not wait another few million years for evolution as suggested by 9th grade Biology class, and worship the unicorn.
Do you accept this? No, because our evidence only supports that the effects of the unicorn exist. Nothing relates to the unicorn.
As a connection to the Jueo-Christian God, replace the word "unicorn" with "God."
Now do you accept this? You shouldn't, because all evidence points to the effects of creation, but none to the causes. Even if evolution is proven false, creation isn't necessarily true.
Creation by God is as valid as creation by Unicorn, and similarly supported by no evidence.
You cannot reference the Bible for specific words or phrases that seem to suggest something. The Bible has been translated countless times, and is most likely nowhere near what God intended it to be. However, it's all we have of God's word, and recognizing that the Bible is not perfect, we (as theists) read it and honor it as God's word anyway.
And, God, and the church, are very different things. God's agents on Earth, can still be seduced by Satan. The church, and church officials can be tempted. The crusades, while they may have been done in the name of God, are not necessarily his intention.
If someone brought a gun to school tommorow, and shot everyone and claimed he was doing it for God, you cannot expect any rational person to believe that this is God's fault.
God's plan can include evolution. Maybe God created Adam and Eve through primates, instead of through "thin air".
I'll address this paragraph by paragraph:
1. How, then can I interpret the bible? How will I know whether or not it says Jesus actually existed or if it claims he was a Beowulf-esque hero? How can a book suggesting the slaughter of 66% of the world's population be perfect? What convinced you that it is so?
2. Satan is an agent of God, according to the concept of omniscience and God's Plan. After all, in the doctrine of creationism, how can Satan exist if not created by God? We've already covered this. Either God is not as powerful as he's said to be, or he is malevolent.
3. Then God has little power, if he exists, to let this happen. If he has power but does not interfere, then he is damning his praying believers to painful death. Perhaps this is what he really wills. As you've said, we don't know what God really wants, because the bible is mistranslated, right?
4. Yes, perhaps God's Plan can include evolution. This does not make it any more valid, because again, this is evidence of the effect, not the cause.
1. A unicorn created the mesonychids sometime in prehistory using magic.
2. The unicorn left no trace of its existence, but decided to create whales around 40-50 million years later rather than let them evolve. It timed some of these whale species to go extinct when they were killed by whalers or pollution.
3. Humans realize this, do not wait another few million years for evolution as suggested by 9th grade Biology class, and worship the unicorn.
Do you accept this? No, because our evidence only supports that the effects of the unicorn exist. Nothing relates to the unicorn.
As a connection to the Jueo-Christian God, replace the word "unicorn" with "God."
Now do you accept this? You shouldn't, because all evidence points to the effects of creation, but none to the causes. Even if evolution is proven false, creation isn't necessarily true.
Creation by God is as valid as creation by Unicorn, and similarly supported by no evidence.
admin said:
One day, to God, could be 75 million years by human standards. You cannot reference the Bible for specific words or phrases that seem to suggest something. The Bible has been translated countless times, and is most likely nowhere near what God intended it to be. However, it's all we have of God's word, and recognizing that the Bible is not perfect, we (as theists) read it and honor it as God's word anyway.
And, God, and the church, are very different things. God's agents on Earth, can still be seduced by Satan. The church, and church officials can be tempted. The crusades, while they may have been done in the name of God, are not necessarily his intention.
If someone brought a gun to school tommorow, and shot everyone and claimed he was doing it for God, you cannot expect any rational person to believe that this is God's fault.
God's plan can include evolution. Maybe God created Adam and Eve through primates, instead of through "thin air".
I'll address this paragraph by paragraph:
1. How, then can I interpret the bible? How will I know whether or not it says Jesus actually existed or if it claims he was a Beowulf-esque hero? How can a book suggesting the slaughter of 66% of the world's population be perfect? What convinced you that it is so?
2. Satan is an agent of God, according to the concept of omniscience and God's Plan. After all, in the doctrine of creationism, how can Satan exist if not created by God? We've already covered this. Either God is not as powerful as he's said to be, or he is malevolent.
3. Then God has little power, if he exists, to let this happen. If he has power but does not interfere, then he is damning his praying believers to painful death. Perhaps this is what he really wills. As you've said, we don't know what God really wants, because the bible is mistranslated, right?
4. Yes, perhaps God's Plan can include evolution. This does not make it any more valid, because again, this is evidence of the effect, not the cause.